Total Information Blackout: Iranian Police Destroying Satellite Dishes in Tehran
The Iranian regime apparently has something it feels it must hide. The police are going building to building smashing sattelite dishes. Is it possible the Mullahs worry that the people will find out that they are provoking their own destruction? (HT: Judith Apter Klinghoffer).
Police in Tehran have begun dismantling satellite dishes from the city's rooftops - part of a campaign to prevent Iranians from watching Western television. The move follows a recent police order that all satellite dishes - officially banned but tolerated until now - be removed. The campaign against satellite television was launched by the Minister for Culture and Islamic Orientation [a pitiful euphemism for Minister of Mind Control if ever there was one], Hassan Saffar Harandi, who said "we have to halt the West's cultural offensive," on Iran.
Some observers believe that the clampdown is aimed at keeping the government's control over news regarding Iran's dispute with the international community regarding its nuclear program.
In recent months, all news coverage on the issue in Iran has been done with the approval of the Supreme Council of National Security, prompting people who wish to be informed by non-government sources to watch and listen to television and radio from abroad.
GJJ:-)I AM WONDERING IF YOU HAVE READ THIS ARTICLE (Wafa Sultan, the Arab Martin Luther King )(IF NOT CLICK ON IT AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE AND LISTEN TO WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY -- OPINIONS THERE SEEM TO HAVE DRIED UP ALSO. BUT YOU CAN GAIN A LOT OF THOUGHT FROM WHAT WAFA HAS TO SAY--AND THE LETTERS THAT FOLLOW THE ARTICLE ABOUT HER.
Posted by: glendacarol | 20 September 2006 at 19:46
The Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilization Professor Moshe Sharon- Wednesday 24th Dec 2003
The war has started a long time ago between two civilizations - between the civilization based on the Bible and between the civilization based on the Koran. And this must be clear.
There is no fundamental Islam.
"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.
All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.
The Language of Islam
You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact, the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the west, we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use for one culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to use the language of Islam.
Driving Principles of Islam
Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God. But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a Moslem.
But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.
The Bible
Let me explain the difference.
The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two ways.
In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.
The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to time, meet each other.
But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of salvation.
Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important. This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals.
The Essence of Islam
Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it should rule the world.
Let's look, then, at the difference between these three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sings, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions."
The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of Islam.
When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years - 640 - the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are humiliated to this very day.
Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems
Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because all the heroes of history were Moslems.
Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel - namely the New Testament.
The Bible vs. the Koran
Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran?
Mohammed explains that the Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely destroyed by war [for now].
Nevertheless, the laws a very clear - Jews and Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for them.
Islamic Rule and Jihad
What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not in the Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians.
A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia were no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.
Two Houses
The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has come under Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and the other part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the "house of non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which as to be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house of war until it comes under Islamic rule.
This is the norm. Why? Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.
Islamic Law
Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law.
However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the Islamic world, countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws.
The strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war.
There are various perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war.
These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict, and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers. Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed.
Islam and Territory
This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.
This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.
The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.
Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because - and this is very important - this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.
Islam and Peace
Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be between Moslem and Moslem.
With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be only one solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins.
The two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which, incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.
Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't believe that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and civilization.
A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."
Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.
Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years.
Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].
In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war and peace in Islamic terms.
Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice
What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy is too strong. It is a tactical choice.
Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most humiliating conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg.
When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of politics."
Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing - we haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt about that.
Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, the deterrent power.
Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War
The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you have Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization.
What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's happening between Pakistan and India?
Islamic Infiltration
Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by infiltration.
One of the things which the western world is not paying enough attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the U.S.
End of Days
It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days.
In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.
Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision.
I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.
Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians.
The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.
Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?
The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war?
The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet.
But for Islam, the establishment of the state of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own independent state. It is anathema.
And (this is the worse) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems.
I believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization. It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual Christians who see this as the road to salvation.
Posted by: Bert | 20 September 2006 at 19:53
Posted by: GJ | 21 September 2006 at 08:03
THANK YOU BERT FOR THE (ABOVE) INFORMATIVE INFORMATION. I TOOK THE LIBERTY TO POST IT (HERE) FROM ANOTHER FORUM HOPING TO ENLIGHTEN OTHERS.
Posted by: GJ | 22 September 2006 at 12:12
Thank you GJ for the posting.
I have been studying Islam and the history of the 3 Religeons for several months, trying to understand all the material that BERT provided in such a clear and thoughtful presentation.
One of the most recent books I read was "While Europe Slept", which discussed the growing menace of un-integrated Muslims that are accumulating all over Europe.
Bert's paper clarifies the primary reason for this anti-integration (non-assimilation) by these Muslim immigrants. If you were taught from earliest childhood to view yourself as an heir to the world, but without any practical way of becoming such an owner of the world (I think murdering women and children and waiting for rocks to talk is generally impractical), then it is understandable that there would be continuing and strong frustration. (If I'm a Muslim Prince, why do these infidels have all these riches and I've got nothing? It can't possibly be my fault.)
Another book, "Victory of Reason" makes the case that Christianity developed with the general guideline of Rationality, meaning that it should be possible to reconcile religious principles and civic principles. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's". This has allowed a degree of separation between Church and State, but without a war between the two: the principles of State and of Church can be reconciled by reasoning. For fundamental Muslims, this is not possible.
The result is that freedom of thought, technical advances, experimentation in life, religeon or government is "ILLEGAL and HERESY", subject to one or another of the means of Muslim Murder (Stoning, Decapitation, etc).
I wish that one of the Muslim members of this Forum would speak on some of these subjects, for our information.
Posted by: hughfon | 22 September 2006 at 15:19
HUGHFON: I AGREE,I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM THEM (MUSLIMS)AND THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE RELIGION.HOW ELSE CAN WE FIND "PEACE" BETWEEN THE CULTURES IF DISCUSSION IS NOT OFFERED FREELY WITH PROBLEMS BEING BROUGHT FORTH AND TALKED ABOUT.
Posted by: GJ | 22 September 2006 at 17:30
Sorry Bert and GJ, but Bert couldn't be further from the truth. His comparison is terrible, and wrong. His references to the Koran are completely false. If you think for one second that Christianity has not tried to rule the world, you are delusional. The Koran, the Torah and the Old testament have the exact same information. The Koran refers to Christians and Jews as people of the book. In ancient times, if Jews and Christians refused to live under Islam, they were banished, not killed. JIhad does NOT mean war, it means struggle. Struggle to be good, to follow God's way. It is these ignorant views of Islam (by ridiculous "historians" like yourself) that perpetrate hatred against Muslims by western civilizations. If you knew anything about Islam and what the Koran actually says, you would be surprised by how similar Judeism, Chrstianity and Islam are. You are spreading this drivel, Bert, and it is very dangerous. It's horrible what you say, just horrible. But I shouldn't be surprised by this, as your propaganda is infamous. And of course Americans are buying this crap. You could not be further from the truth. You are trying to distort Islam, and you should be ashamed. What you fail to mention, Bert, is that when Mohammed conquered Mecca, he did so without shedding one drop of blood. Islam is not trying to rule the world. It is the word of God, period, and what God states in the Koran is that Islam is a religion for all, unlike the clique you call Judeism. Islam is the fastest growing religion, and not because it is forced on anyone. It's the fastest growing religion in the US. Keep spewing your false drivel, go ahead. Enlightened peoples, God willing, will see past your disgusting propaganda. I can't believe you. You think Israel wants peace? You think the genocide you are perpetrating is a means of peace? In the times of the prophet, there weren't witch hunts for anything un-Islamic. What did the Christians do? They killed anything that was un-Christian. I can't believe you sit there defending Christianity. Christianity has bean 100 times more brutal to Jews than Islam. Every crusade that left Europe massacared Jews on its way out. What about the Holocaust? Did Islam do that? No. Islam is not war, far from it. God stated in the Koran that Muslims must fight whereever they are being attacked, but as soon as the attack stops, they must stop, and God prefers restreint. If there is oppression against Muslims, then fight. When the oppression stops, then stop fighting. Does that sound like a war-mongering religion? I am sure that was written as a warning from God that Jews and Christians would be attacking Islam often in history... Anyway, I can't even believe I am dignifying the crap you wrote with a response...
Posted by: JNA | 24 September 2006 at 03:40
There HUGHFON et al,I have answered. I do not claim to be the historian Bert is (what a crock). I would be more than happy to discuss with anyone what I feel and what I know to be true, but it is difficult when people like Bert write what they write, and call it the truth. As for what you write, I also have a problem with that, although I won't deny there are problems with integration. Islam not allowing freedom of thought, or reasoning, however, could not be further from the truth. Islam brought science, civilization, math, art, and almost everything to Europe. It is the reason Europe got out of the dark ages. In the Koran, pregnancy is actually defined, in terms of fetal growth (blood clot, cell generation etc), hundreds of years before this process was even known to science, so you cannot say that Islam discourages anything scientific or rational. It encourages it. I have always been encouraged to question and seek knowledge, as the Koran tells us all to do. The reason is that, since it is the word of God, it is infallible. God basically challenges us to prove Him wrong, because He knows we can't, the Koran (and the Torah, and the Old testament) is perfect. the Koran is the final chapter of God's revelation to Humankind. I can't explain why there is such difficulty for Muslims to integrate into non-Muslim societies. I would not say this is the blanket truth. Many do. I would also say it's not a Muslim-only problem. It is the case with many immigrant communities. I would thin it's as much the State's fault as the communities', but I don't know for sure. I am writing today from a western country, born and raised, and I converted to Islam, so I don't carry the baggage of immigration, nor man's interpretation of Islam being drilled into my head at an early age. I also don't think that in all Islamic counties, this takes place. Like in any religion, man's interpretation, coupled with his greed, is what the problem is, not the true teachings of the particular faith. I just wish people like Bert would try to be a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem.
Posted by: JNA | 24 September 2006 at 03:59
JNA: YOU SURELY MEAN WELL--HOWEVER I AM OLD ENOUGH AND HAVE READ ENOUGH --TO KNOW THE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID MAKES SENSE. YOU HAVE STATED THAT ISLAM IS ABOUT PEACE AND LOVE WHEN CONSTANTLY THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS DIPPED IN BLOOOD. YOU PUT BERT DOWN FOR STATING FACTS WHEN YOU YOURSELF HAVE YOUR HEAD BURIED UP YOUR ASS.YOU SAY YOU WERE RAISED IN THE U.S. AND YET YOU MAKE THESE STATEMENTS. THEN I SAY TO YOU -- THAT ONE DAY YOUR EYES WILL OPEN TO THE TRUTH. IN THE MEANTIME TELL ME WHAT IT IS ABOUT THE ISLAMIC FAITH THAT HAS DRAWN YOU TO IT TO THE POINT OF CONVERSION.( YOUR LETTER IS NOT CLEAR ON THIS) ENLIGHTEN ME PLEASE. ABOUT CHRISTINITY, IT IS NOT PRESENTED AS A PERFECT RELIGION IT IS (PRESENTED) AND THAT IS ALL, IT IS NOT FORCED ON ANYONE.
Posted by: SYED | 24 September 2006 at 06:36
Sorry Syed, I did not say it is all about peace and love. In fact, I did not use those words at all. What I am doing is trying to counter the ignorant rant of a fanatic (BERT), that states that all Islam is about is hatred and war, only to further his own Zionist agenda. He is inaccurate with almost every "historical" reference he makes. The teachings of Islam (and Christianity, and probably Judeism - not as well versed in this one) - for that matter), do not promote violence. I don't disagree that much violence has been perpetrated in the name of Islam, and Christianity, and Judeism. I would argue that historically, Islam is probably the least violent... Again, if you read a bit more closely (your old eyes might be failing you), you would have seen this in what I wrote. I did not see anything in your response to counter any arguments, for or against anything, so you bring nothing to the conversation. I also said nothing about Islam pushing anything on anybody, those who do that, I do not agree with. But you stating that christianity is not pushed on anyone is a pipe dream. Can you say Missions? Jehovah's Witnesses? Crusades? Come on, who head is up who's posterior? How can you say nothing I said makes sense? What part? I also didn't say I was from the US (God forbid). What drew me to Islam was that it made the most sense. Having been raised Catholic, it made perfect sense that Islam completed the revelation. It answered questions like "why doesn't science and religion match up?" IT DOES. It answered a multitude of doubts for me, and it made sense that man was not created in the image of God (what a silly notion), or that Jesus was his son - God is not human, only man would preach such a thing in order to get followers. Jesus is a prophet. Sorry, Syed (not Muslim?), that you feel the way you do. May God be with you.
Posted by: JNA | 24 September 2006 at 07:21
YOU SAY THAT ISLAM IS NOT ALL ABOUT PEACE AND LOVE (THOUGH IT IS IMPLIED IN YOUR WORDS.) IN FACT, IF IT IS NOT ABOUT TEACHING LOVE AND PEACE THEN WHAT IS IT ABOUT?
Posted by: SYED | 24 September 2006 at 08:08
JNA: CHRISTINITY IS NOT "FORCED" ON ANYONE. YOU MAY CHOOSE IT OR REJECT IT--YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOUR HEAD--OR YOUR PLACE IN SOCIETY,
YOU WILL NOT BECOME A SOCIEL OUTCAST AND YOU WILL NOT BE SHUNNED. YOU WILL BE FREE TO GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS AND EVEN CONVERT TO SOME BUTT IN THE AIR FIVE TIMES A DAY PRAYER RITUAL IF YOU CHOOSE. ISLAM IS WAR - IT IS CONTROL - IT IS KEEPING CONTROL OVER THE PEOPLE. IF ISLAM IS A PEACEFULL RELIGION AS YOU SAY- THEN IT NEEDS TO BE RECLAIMED BY THE PEOPLE (AS SUCH) BECAUSE RIGHT NOW-- WELL JUST OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. IT IS NOT THE JEWS BLOWING UP EACH OTHER AND CHOPPING OFF HEADS. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT "YESTERDAY' WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
Posted by: SYED | 24 September 2006 at 08:24
JNA: BY THE WAY, I NEVER SAID I WAS A CHRISTIAN. THE WAY IT STANDS NOW IN MY EYES, I AM A BELIEVER IN MYSELF AND WHAT I FEEL IS RIGHT. IT IS RIGHT TO HAVE LOVE FOR EACH OTHER AND THE DESIRE TO PROMOTE PEACE AND KINDNESS TO ALL. THIS IS SO FAR FROM REALITY THAT IT IS UNSEEN. THERE IS SO MUCH GREED, SO MUCH JUDGEMENT AND TOO LITTLE CARING OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I DO KNOW THAT SINCE 9/11 we can't find a single incident when a mosque leader or ordinary Muslim was murdered in the name of Christianity. AS OPPOSED TO ALL THE ATROCITIES THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE ACROSS THE GLOBE IN THE NAME OF "ALLAH" IS THIS A DIFFERENT ISLAM THAT CALIMS THESE VICTORIES?
Posted by: SYED | 24 September 2006 at 09:35
Excuse me Syed? Not one incident since 9/11 where a mosque leader was killed? Have you seen what's happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, or Lebanon foe that matter? Anyway, my point is that all these people who claim to be acting in the name of Allah do not speak for me, as a believer of Islam. For the love of God, stop buying all of the rhetoric. We will never know what is really taking place, who is really killing who in Iraq. Who is really instigating what. I find you are being quite hurtful in how you are commenting, and again, you really aren't being fair when you use blanket statements like Islam is war. It is an ignorant stance, period. Yes, the leaders of many of the Islamic countries are oppressive, backwards, and do not contribute to the progress of their countries, and in my opinion, are not leading in an Islamic way. I think if you ask most practising Muslims in those countries, they would agree with me, and would be quite happy to get rid of those leaders. And again, the ignorant "hand-cutting", "head-chooping" comments you make do not help, but then again, you seem bent on bashing one of the great world religions, instead of actually learning what it intended in the first place. That's what enlightened individuals do. I am glad you believe in yourself, someone has to. You will not raise you to heaven. You know not all. But hey, you go ahead and enjoy this life, at the expense of the other. Yes, I implied that Islam is peaceful, you got me there. What is wrong with that? It does. Get a Koran and you will see. Wherever there is mention of fighting (as an obligation, only when being attacked), there is always a phrase that says restraint is preferred. But hey, I obviously cannot get through to you. You have made up your mind about religion. I did not call you Christian, by the way, but you said that Christianity is not presented as a perfect religion, only presented, not pushed on anyone, so I rebutted. Then again, if you believe in God, then by default, you must believe he is perfect, and therefore, you would believe that the word you believe in is perfect, No? HOw in the world could you possibly think it does not present itself as perfect?
Posted by: JNA | 24 September 2006 at 13:37
JNA: I BELIEVE THAT "THE WORD OF GOD" HAS BEEN "MESSED WITH" SO MUCH FROM MEN IN ALL RELIGIONS THAT IT IS ONLY A SHELL OF WHAT IT WAS WHEN THE WORD WAS GIVEN BY THE ONE AND ONLY GOD. KINGS, CLERICS, PRISTS AND ALL MEN OF POWER HAVE CHANGED IT TO MEET THEIR NEEDS AND TO HELP THEM CONTROL THE PEOPLE. THIS ALONE MAKES IT LESS THAN PERFCT. I ALSO BELIVE THAT IN THE END IT WILL ALL WORK OUT THE WAY GOD INTENDS IT TO BE. BUT ONLY GOD CAN MAKE THAT CALL--NOT MY BELIEFS OR YOUR BELIEFS OR THE MAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY CAN MAKE THE CALL OR SPEAK FOR GOD--ONLY GOD CAN AND WILL TAKE THAT LIBERTY WHEN WE AS (SOULS) HAVE LEARNED WHATEVER IT IS THAT GOD INTENDS FOR US TO KNOW.RIGHT NOW, THIS FORUM (THAT WE ARE IN) IS A GOOD THING A VERY GOOD THING. FOR WE CAN DISCUSS THESE MATTERS OF DIFFERANCE WITHOUT ANYONE BEING HURT. MY FEELINGS TOWARD YOUR FAITH IS NOT TO BE TAKEN PERSONEL FOR IT IS WHAT I AM SEEING AND HEARING EACH DAY THAT HURTS ME AND YES, IT ANGERS ME THAT ANY RELIGION CLAIMS TO BE THE ONLY WAY TO GOD. NOW YOU SAY THAT ISLAM DOES NOT FORCE RELIGION ON ANYONE. WELL MAYBE THAT IS TRUE, SO IF IT IS WHERE ARE ALL THESE MEN COMING FROM THAT KILL AND TORTURE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM? ARE THERE MORE THAN ONE ISLAM/MUSLIM FAITH. MAYBE ONE GROUP BROKE OFF FROM THE OTHER AND CLAIM VICTORY IN THE NAME OF ISLAM/MUSLIM AS A WHOLE. IF THIS IS THE CASE - THEN THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY AND BELIEVE IN YOUR RELIGION AS LOVING AND PEACEFUL SHOULD STAND TALL AND DEMAND THAT YOU BE REGONIZED AND THAT YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE KILLERS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Posted by: SYED | 24 September 2006 at 20:37
LETS SEE NOW, TODAY IT IS REPORTED THAT SAFIA AMA JAN A 65 YEAR OLD LADY KNOW AS amma jan OR dear aunt by many has been gunned down by gunmen riding motorcycles usual mode of transportation (better known as cowardly thugs) of the TALIBAN WAS SHOT FOUR TIMES ONCE IN THE HEAD AS SHE LEFT HER HOME FOR WORK. THIS BRAVE LADY WAS A REAL THREAT TO THE TALIBAN SINCE SHE WAS A TEACHER AND WAS MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE LIVES OF THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN THERE. HELP ME HERE---NOW --WHAT RELIGION DO THESE BRAVE ( TONGUE IN CHEEK) MEN CLAIM TO BE A PART OF?
Posted by: CAROL | 26 September 2006 at 07:47
Syed, can't really argue with what you say (this time :-)) But hey, all I know is that when I read the Koran, a text that has not been altered in the least from the time it was revealed, that I believe it is perfect, and the messages I take out of it are not at all in line with these fanatics you describe. When they say they act in the name of Islam, I don't believe they are. Yes, I wish people like myself would speak out and stand tall. I am beginning small, by contributing to the discussion here, in the hopes that I gain more courage to do so more openly. Since 9/11, being muslim ain't exactly easy... Carol, that is an awful story, one that breaks my heart. I have no explanation for it. The Taliban are backwards, that is all I can say, and they obviously do not consider life, all life, to be sacred, which the Koran teaches. The Koran is a mix of literal and allegorical teachings, and unfortunately, not everyone is wise enough and worthy of interpreting it.
Posted by: JNA | 26 September 2006 at 17:08
JNA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. I WILL WATCH FOR YOUR POSTINGS AND REPLY TO THEM...
Posted by: CAROL | 26 September 2006 at 19:27
fuck wafaa sultan that bitch and death 4 america and george bush is a son of a bitch
Posted by: ali | 27 September 2006 at 14:44
The only thing the radical Islamists, opposing Dr. Wafa Sultan, can do is to bad mouth her and those who support or agree with her. They do not give one good reason why they oppose her. It seems that fanatic people, whether Muslems or others, can't face fact or truth they just repeat lies and foul words. You can't convince them with facts. As the saying go "I have made up my mind don't confuse me with facts".
Posted by: Ilana | 28 September 2006 at 01:32
Posted by: JIT | 28 September 2006 at 04:09
WANTED TO SHARE THIS:
Wafa Sultan certainly knows the truth about the false Prophet and his murderous blood cult/religion.
OH! MERCIFUL ISLAM....
OH! MERCIFUL MUSLIMS..
OH! GET A LIFE, CRETINS..
All other religions, despite their bloody past are now only concerned with personal piety and spiritual development of their followers. Some of them also get involved in works of charity like Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, etc. But Muslims are the only group that still thinks of Jihad, and expansion of their religion through violent means. Muslims are the only group that believes their god has given them the mission to kill those who reject him. Muslims are the only group that still endeavors to impose the antiquated misogynistic laws of their “holy” book. And Muslims are the only group that has not apologized for the crimes of their past and keeps committing those crimes even today.
Let's face it all religions have had bad and bloody pasts, but for the rest of the other religions those bridges have been burned and society has progressed, and no longer killing based on differences (in advanced societies) that is why i will only post the past century of events over the next few posts, and not include THE ENORMOUS jihads which have occured in all Islamic history, the worst being in India!! Where almost 1 million was reported to be killed in one day along in the 13th century. Unforunetly, today this is a site where MANY atrocities still occur.
Here are just a few more examples of the muslim mindset......
If I did all terror attacks since 9/11 then I would never get finished. However, here are some of the attacks of 2005 for you. I know I will receive comments saying, hey, what about all the Christians that kill people each day in the US and abroad, or the Jews, etc. Well, yes, Christians and other religions do kill..but when Christians do kill, they aren't saying God is great while doing it and expecting some sort of sexual reward, and how many Christians go out killing people because they are Muslims, or Hindus or whatever? How many christian, buddhist or whatever Other than "Islamic" terrorist groups are going around killing those who disagree with them? That is the point I am making. Look where the majority of these attacks occur, in Islamic countries. I'm not seeing the "Religion of Peace" here.
Oh! those brave muslim warriors.......
7/28/05 India, Sokar A 5-year-old girl, her mother and grandmother are slaughtered in a home invasion by the Mujahideen.
7/23/05 Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt 88 killed 119 injured: More than eighty tourists and workers are killed when Islamic militants detonate three powerful car bombs outside a café and two hotels. One suicide bomber drove into the lobby.
7/20/05 Srinigar: Hizbul Mujahideen suicide bomber targets a missionary children's school in the Indian capital, killing at least six and injuring more than a dozen.
7/19/05 Chitabas, India 6 killed The Hizbul Mujahideen enter a residence and slaughter six members of a family, in a heinous attack.
7/19/05 Znamenskoye Chechnya Fourteen people, including civilians, are killed in a Jihad attack by Muslim separatists on a remote road.
7/18/05 Sala, Thailand Muslims behead a farmer and shoot at least two other people to death, including a school principal.
7/18/05 Chilas Farm, Pakistan In three separate attacks, Muslims behead a farmer and shoot at least two other people to death, including a school principal.
7/16/05 Narathiwat, Thailand 2 killed Muslim separatists attack a school, killing two security guards.
7/16/05 Baramulla India The Mujahideen shoot a man to death outside his home, and also stage a separate attack that kills a 6-year-old girl.
7/14/05Thailand,Yala Islamic militants set off four bombs in restaraunts and other business areas, killing at least two people and injuring many more.
7/15/05Thailand, Narathiwat Two female teachers are gunned down by Muslims on motorcycles as they are walking home.
7/9/05 Algeria,Tezi Ozo: A group of thirty Islamists set-up a fake roadblock, then slaughter four Algerians that are fooled into stopping.
7/7/05 London Islamic terrorists massacre more than fifty commuters on three separate subway trains and a double-decker bus on the street with four suicide bombs. Over seven-hundred people are injured.
7/2/05 Dagestan, Makhachkala 11 killed 23 injured Russian troops and civilians are casualties in a radio-controlled bomb attack outside a bathhouse blamed on Islamic militants.
6/30/05 India, Mahakund The Mujahideen kill a 20-year-old girl on the night before her wedding, along with her mother and a neighbor. A civilian is also abducted from his home and killed in the same district.
6/24/05 India Srinigar Nine people are killed and 25 injured when Islamic militants detonate a powerful car bomb at a popular tourist attraction.
6/15/05 India, Chaklas The Mujahideen assassinate a veterinarian and also set fire to another civilian's house, killing his 8-month-old daughter in the flames.
6/13/05 India.Pulwama At least thirteen people are slaughtered, and over one hundred injured when the Mujahideen set off a truck bomb near a school. Many schoolchildren are among the casualties.
6/9/05 Tver, Chechnya Seven Chechnyan police officers are killed when Mujahideen rebels fire a grenade launcher at their car.
6/7/05 Algeria, M'Sila Militants fighting for an Islamic state kill thirteen soldiers and injure six in a bombing attack on their truck.
6/4/05 Mauritania, Limgheiti al-Qaeda militants attack and kill fifteen Mauritanian soldiers and injure 19 in a remote area.
6/2/05 India, Harwan The Mujahideen abduct and later behead four members of two families
5/31/05 Pakistan, Karachi A mob of angry Shias take out their frustration at Sunnis on Kentucky Fried Chicken employees, killing six, including four who were burned alive.
5/28/05 Indonesia A priest and an infant are among the nearly two dozen Christians killed when Islamic militants detonate two bombs in the center of a village. At least sixty others are injured.
5/27/05 Islamabad, Pakistan A suicide bomber blows himself up amid a crowd of mostly Shia worhippers at a Pakistani shrine. At least nineteen are killed and dozens injured.
5/17/2005 India The Mujahideen attacks a funeral of a man they murdered, killing two additional mourners and injuring seventeen. Also, Seven family members, including women are asleep in their home when militant Muslims barge in and slit the throats of four of them while beating the rest.
5/16/05 Maluku, Indonesia Five policemen and a civilian are killed by Islamic militants in Indonesia, as they were sleeping. The militants accused them of protecting a Christian village.
5/15/05 Algeria All eleven members of a water supply convoy are blown up or machine-gunned by the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat.
5/14/05 Kalkote, India The Mujahideen murder a father and his three sons as they are returning from their work in a coal mine.
5/12/05 Srinigar India The Mujahideen target a school with grenades, killing two women and injuring about fifty others, including eleven children.
5/7/05 Jounieh LebanonTwenty-eight people injured by a bomb set in a commercial district of a Christian town.
5/5/05 Udhampar IndiaMujahideen militants lob a grenade then open fire on a Hindu wedding party, killing two teenage girls (ages 15 and 17) and injuriing twenty-two others.
4/20/05 Cairo Egypt: Two women in veils stage a shooting attack on a tour bus. They are the only fatalities, but nine innocents are injured.
4/24/05 At least six Christian villagers are killed by their Muslim neighbors after refusing to 'return to Islam.'
4/7/05 Algeria Algerian fundamentalists set up a fake roadblock then slaughter the trapped victims and set fire to their cars
4/7/05 Cairo: Islamist detonates a nail-packed bomb in a shopping area, killing a French woman and two others, including an American tourist. Eighteen others are injured.
4/7/05 Sudan Arab militia raids an African village, killing at least seventeen and torching homes. A small mosque was one of only two structures spared.
4/3/05 Thailand Islamic militants set off three bombs, killing two and injuring at least seventy. The fatalities were from the bomb set at the airport. The other two bombs were at a hotel and a department store.
3/27/05 Udhampur India: Mujahideen militants set fire to a civilian's house after killing his mother, wife and infant daughter. They also murder a neighbor.
3/23/05 Lebanon Three people are killed when Muslim terrorists detonate an 80kg bomb in a shopping center in a Christian area north of Beirut.
3/20/05 Fatehpur Pakistan Radical Sunni suicide bomber blows up a Shia religious festival near a Pakistani shrine, killing about three dozen and injuring many more.
3/17/05 Benue, Nigeria Two Muslim men rape a Christian girl and then poison her.
3/14/05 Scotland Five Pakistani immigrants abduct, torture and then burn alive a 15-year-old Scottish teen in a horrendous attack. Three later flee the country.
3/8/05 Bangaladesh Christian pastor attacked and beheaded by Muslim extremists as he is returning home from work
2/28/05 Sudan Arab militias with the support of the Islamic government attack a village and kille seventeen civilians and injure a dozen others including several women who were raped.
2/14/05 Powerful suicide bomb blast kills the former Lebanese Prime Minister and fourteen others. One-hundred and twenty are injured in the blast.
2/4/05 Demsaa Nigeria Militant Muslims attack a Christian village in Nigeria, killing at least three dozen and displacing some three thousand others.
1/31/05 Nathali-Bagwa India- Four members of a family, including three children and their mother, are killed when the Mujahideen hurl a grenade into a house after knocking down the door.
1/31/05 Inantag India The Mujahideen break into a house and kill a woman, then kidnap and hang her student son.
1/28/05 Alkan-Yurt ChechnyaJihad suicide bomber kills nine Chechan policemen after crashing his car into theirs at full speed.
1/27/05 Bangaladesh: Islamic fundamentalists lob a grenade into an opposition political rally, killing a former finance minister and at least four others. About one hundred people are injured, some badly.
Also Four people, including a 73-year-old man are assassinated by Muslim radicals in a grenade attack as they leave a public meeting.
1/19/05 Sudan The Islamic government bombs a village in Darfur, killing more than a hundred people, mostly women and children. An unknown number are wounded.
1/15/05 Bangaladesh: Islamic militants set off bombs at two different carnivals killing three and injuring about ninety others, including stage performers.
1/5/05 Grozny Chechnya A series of Mujahideen attacks across the country leaves seventeen dead, nineteen wounded and six others, including two college students kidnapped.
1/4/05 Pakistan A husband and wife, their son and two other relatives are murdered in their home in an 'honor killing' by a group of armed men.
1/3/05 Algeria's Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat bombs a convoy then rakes it with machine-gun fire, killing eighteen people and injuring an unknown number.
Posted by: Ex Muslim | 09 October 2006 at 02:37
Posted by: JIT | 09 October 2006 at 09:14
ARE THEY ALL "SICK" IN THE HEAD WITH THE PROMISES THAT ARE MADE TO THEM BY THEIR " MURDERUS" LEADERS? WHY AREN'T THE "GOOD" MUSLINS STANDING UP AND SPEAKING AGAINST THESE KILLERS? WHAT IS GOOD ABOUT THE ISLAMIC RELIGION? WHAT IS HOLY ABOUT IT? HOW DOES IT HELP ITS FOLLOWERS?
Posted by: SYED | 09 October 2006 at 10:06
RELIGION-IT IS NOT ABOUT GOD AT ALL IT IS ABOUT THE POWER THE SO CALLED "HOLY MEN" NEED TO HELP THEM FEEL LIKE "MEN"-TO ESTALISH POWER OVER THE PEOPLE THAT ARE "LOW LIFE" AND "PITIFUL ENOUGH" TO BELIEVE THE "POPPYCOCK" THAT THESE "HOLY MURDERS" TEACH THEM. IT IS ALL ABOUT "THEM"..HOW DO THE FOLLOWERS REALLY FEEL ABOUT THE DEEDS THEY CONTINUE TO DO EACH DAY? ARE THEY GIVEN DRUGS TO STOP THEIR OWN PAIN AS THEY BLOW THEMSELVES UP AND KILL CHILDREN? DO THEY VALUE ANYTHING OF IMPORTANCE AT ALL ARE OR THEY JUST MINDLESS ROBOTS FOR SOME " STUPID, SELFISH, SO CALLED "HOLY MAN" BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE "UNHOLY DEVILS"
JUST WONDERING
Posted by: SYED | 09 October 2006 at 10:18
RELIGION-IT IS NOT ABOUT GOD AT ALL IT IS ABOUT THE POWER THE SO CALLED "HOLY MEN" NEED TO HELP THEM FEEL LIKE "MEN"-TO ESTALISH POWER OVER THE PEOPLE THAT ARE "LOW LIFE" AND "PITIFUL ENOUGH" TO BELIEVE THE "POPPYCOCK" THAT THESE "HOLY MURDERS" TEACH THEM. IT IS ALL ABOUT "THEM"..HOW DO THE FOLLOWERS REALLY FEEL ABOUT THE DEEDS THEY CONTINUE TO DO EACH DAY? ARE THEY GIVEN DRUGS TO STOP THEIR OWN PAIN AS THEY BLOW THEMSELVES UP AND KILL CHILDREN? DO THEY VALUE ANYTHING OF IMPORTANCE AT ALL ARE OR THEY JUST MINDLESS ROBOTS FOR SOME " STUPID, SELFISH, SO CALLED "HOLY MAN" BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE "UNHOLY DEVILS"
JUST WONDERING
Posted by: SYED | 09 October 2006 at 10:18
Let's forget about religion for just a second; how many people has the U.S. either killed, or funded/armed another country to kill in the past 100 years? 50? 5 years? Millions, and we are just talking direct deaths here, and not indirect deaths. Now bring religion back. What faith has dominated the U.S.? We could actually argue that although Christianity dominates, the Israeli lobby is almost as powerful... If we look at how Islam was spread when it first came about, contrary to popular belief, it was not by the sword. Nobody was forced to convert to Islam. Islam, like any other empire, was conquering land, yes, but they were not imposing Islam on the conquered. The conquered were given the option - they could either learn Islam and convert, or pay a tax. Not unreasonable in those days. Did the Greeks not acquire land? The Romans? SO to argue that Islam was spread by the sword is false. Now bringing it back to today, as i said in earlier posts, I personally do not agree to violent means of making a point, however, if Muslims are oppressed, which they are in many parts of te world (although many would never know thanks to the monopolies on the media), they have the absolute right to fight back, until such time as the oppressor stops oppressing, then they must stop. Muslims are not to oppress, it goes against Islam. I would argue that what the Sudanese government is doing is haram (against Islam), but I am not 100% sure of all the facts there (other than people are starving and dying and being raped in refugee camps).
On a somewhat related note, people, read this: http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/Seven%20Myths%20Primer%20v.4.pdf
And tell me there isn't something wrong here, when a country can get away with acting this way.
And give up this crusade against Islam. There are 1.1 billion Muslims. Don't you think that there would be a heck of a lot more chaos if the QU'ran actually compelled us to kill all non-believers? How delusional can you be? STOP PERPETRATING LIES FOLKS, READ THE QU'RAN, SEE THE LIGHT. And if nothing else, learn that at least, it does not preach death and destruction to all non-believers. It preaches justice, and stresses that restraint is better. Here is another question for the ranter who states islamist (JIT?)(which is a political movement, and does not represent all Muslims) terrorist attacks: how many Muslims have died since 9/11? hundreds of thousands at a minimum, thanks to the U.S. and its allies. For 3,000 Americans. I am not diminishing these innocent victims' lives. I am asking why Muslim lives are so much less important. (/11 victims are remembered every year, and will forever be memorialized. What about the Muslim lives lost since? No one will remeber them. While I admit that especially in Iraq, increasingly it is Shites and Sunnis doing a lot of the killing now, they certainly weren't doing any of that before the invasion/occupation. Same with Afghanistan. Again, give up the crusade against Islam. Learn more about it and the circumstances surrounding it. You'd be surprised that it has very little to do with religion, and very much to do with Corporate and government agendas...
Posted by: JNA | 18 October 2006 at 20:43
JNA - OK - SO HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE ATROCITIES? HOW CAN YOU CONTINUE TO BLAME THE USA AND OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THE KILLINGS THAT ARE NOW TAKING PLACE? IT IS VISIBLE, ONE CAN SEE, WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?
MUSLIMS ARE DYING BY THE HANDS OF TERRIOST NOT AMERICANS. AMERICANS ARE DYING BY THE HANDS OF TERRIOST ALSO--WHO ARE THE TERRIOST IF THEY ARE NOT WHO THEY CLAIM TO BE?
Posted by: JIT | 19 October 2006 at 06:18